Official study data - Ramp slope and HRV a1 thresholds - does it matter?
One topic we have not explored is the effect that ramp slope (rate of power/speed increase) could have on the HRVT (1 and 2). Ramp slope does not appear to have a major effect on gas exchange parameters such as the VT1 or VO2 max, but it does affect corresponding cycling power (and muscle O2 desat). The idea behind this issue is that there is a lag between what is going on in the muscle and the associated ventilatory metrics. However, since HR is usually a linear function of VO2 (up to the VT2 at least), HR at the VT1 appears to be an accurate measure. Does that apply to the HRVT as well? On one hand there may be a lag in autonomic balance, causing a delay in a1 drop with a quick ramp. In addition, we are looking at 2 minute window sampling in a1 computation, another potential area for lag in response. However, it would be nice to have a shorter test to obtain readings for many reasons. Therefore I decided to do a 30w/minute cycling ramp instead of my usual 5w/minute standard. In addition, the end ramp power was planned to be well above the MLSS (but not to exhaustion) to make sure the a1 drop was sufficient. As in previous tests, time of day, sleep, nutrition, temp, fan, cycling gear were all similar. The 5 w/min ramp was done from 130 to 230w (20min) and the 30w/min ramp from 100 to 340w (8min).
Standard 5w/min Ramp:
30w/min Ramp:
- Both ramps have near linear HR rise (and hence VO2 increase).
- The 5w/min ramp did not have the low nadir DFA a1 seen with the 30w/min ramp - as expected since the short ramp was done to MLSS+.
- Despite the huge difference in ramp slope, both HRVT and HRVT2 were very close in each case.
- The HRVT is usually what I see when fresh, without fatigue. The HRVT2 HR is a bit on the low side (should have been about 156 bpm). Recall from our study that the limits of agreement are wider at the HRVT2, but in line with those of other comparative methods of MLSS (muscle O2 desat and critical power).
Summary:
- Although this is N=1 early data, it may be possible to get an accurate measurement of the HRVT HR with shorter ramps. For those of you comparing HRVT over ramp slopes, I would love to hear of your experiences.
- HRVT power should not be inferred with steep slope ramps, instead use the 5w/min or even constant power intervals for that.
Heart rate variability during dynamic exercise
- Firstbeat VO2 estimation - valid or voodoo?
- Heart rate variability during exercise - threshold testing
- Exercise in the heat and VO2 max estimation
- DFA alpha1, HRV complexity and polarized training
- HRV artifact avoidance vs correction, getting it right the first time
- VT1 correlation to HRV indexes - revisited
- DFA a1 and Zone 1 limits - the effect of Kubios artifact correction
- HRV artifact effects on DFA a1 using alternate software
- A just published article on DFA a1 and Zone 1 demarcation
- DFA a1 vs intensity metrics via ramp vs constant power intervals
- DFA a1 decline with intensity, effect of elevated skin temperature
- Fractal Correlation Properties of Heart Rate Variability (DFA a1): A New Biomarker for Intensity Distribution in Endurance Exercise
- Movesense Medical ECG V2.0 Firmware brief review
- Movesense Medical ECG - improving the waveform and HRV accuracy
- DFA a1 and the aerobic threshold, video conference presentation
- DFA a1 - running ramp and sample rate observations with the Movesense ECG
- DFA a1 calculation - Kubios vs Python mini validation
- Frontiers in Physiology - Validation of DFA a1 as a marker of VT1
- Real time Aerobic thresholds and polarized training with HRV Logger
- Active Recovery with HRV Logger
- DFA a1 and exercise intensity FAQ
- DFA a1 agreement using Polar H10, ECG, HRV logger
- DFA a1 post HIT, and as marker of fatigue
- DFA a1 stability over longer exercise times
- DFA a1, Sample rates and Device quirks
- DFA a1 and the HRVT2 - VT2/LT2
- Low DFA a1 while running - a possible fix?
- Runalyze vs Kubios DFA a1 agreement
- DFA a1 - Runalyze vs Kubios vs Logger results in a cyclist
- Best practices for Runalyze and DFA a1 thresholds
- ACSM - HRVT validation in a cardiac disease population
- FatMaxxer - a new app for real time a1
- Another look at indoor exercise without a fan
- ECG artifact strips from Fatmaxxer - a guide
- ECG arrhythmia and artifact visualization tips
- DFA a1 as a marker of endurance exercise fatigue
- To train hard or not, that's the question
- DFA a1 HRVT and Ramp slope
Hi Bruce, were your ramps constantly rising or done in "block" steps?
ReplyDeleteIncremental ramps done with Zwift. So very smooth resistance increase.
ReplyDeleteIf you are able to see this link, like this? https://www.trainerroad.com/app/cycling/workouts/1260593-dfa-alpha1-30w-min-ramp
ReplyDeleteSorry, I couldn't log in.
ReplyDeleteOK I'm not sure what you mean by incremental. So, 130W for 1 min then jump to 135W for 1 min etc or are you increasing from 130 to 135 over the course of 1 minute?
ReplyDeleteIncremental generally means a continuous even rise (changes every few secs). So 60 w rise in 1 minute would end up as a 1 Watt increase per second. Yes, Zwift can do that very well.
ReplyDeleteAh I see, I need to edit my workouts then
ReplyDeletei figured out, that if i drink something during a ride my dfa-a1 increased for a moment, so the value is falsified.
ReplyDeleteDo you even noticed this effect during your tests?? And what do you recommened during a ramp-test, drink or not to drink?
I don't think it's the drinking but that your cycling power temporarily drops. I wouldn't call it a false value. Ramp tests will be difficult to interpret if they are interrupted.
DeleteHi Bruce,
ReplyDeleteI have done a bike ramp test according to AIendurance protcol and my DFA1 crosses .75 at 163bpm (max HR 193) and a power of 240 c.a.
The thing is that my indoor FTP is around 230. That means I never see my DFA1 crossing .75 when doing sessions like tempo or sweetspot, let alone endurance, being both power targets and HR values at those targets lower than the one I measured in the ramp test.
What could it mean? Shall I re-do the ramp test to be sure?
There are a few issues that could lead to a1 not dropping as it should. The main one being artifact or device. Do you know what the percent artifact is? Are you using a polar H10? If the artifact is below 3% and you are using an H10, why don't you leave a link to your fit file (or raw RRs) and I'll take a look.
DeleteYeah, I am using an H10, artifacts are 0% from the start of the ramp rate. Forgot to mention that the HR value where DFA crosses 0.75 matches the one recorded in a lab during a VO2max test. Here is the link of the ramp test: https://file.io/qzH63OO7EtTL. Thanks for helping.
DeleteThe ramp looks great from a technical standpoint. I uploaded the results to here - http://www.muscleoxygentraining.com/2021/04/quick-look-at-someones-ramp-data.html. The HRVT is close to what you got (160bpm). If you have the raw VO2 test, I would like to see that too. If you just have the results, what was the VT1 heart rate?
DeleteThanks. Unfortunately, I do not have the raw data but the VT1 HR is 162bpm in the report. Just to add to the conversation, VT2 HR 171bpm, which I was getting closer to in the ramp test.
DeleteSo I could I explain the discrepancy I see between VT1 HR and the fact that I reach those values only if I do long sweetspot sessions? From my understanding VT1 should be around 75% FTP according to Coggan's zone, or upper endurance, in most people.
Could my muscular efficiency be underdeveloped compared to my aerobic one?
Ah, ok so we nailed your VT1 and VT2 perfectly! I'm not sure what the discrepancy is? You indoor FTP is probably biased. Recall that FTP is a "max effort" test, and indoor effort can be different than outdoor - http://www.muscleoxygentraining.com/2018/07/trainer-vs-road-cycling-psychologic-and.html. Given the agreement of HRV to the gas exchange numbers, those are your true stats. Ignore "fixed zone" recommendations. You are doing fine (just have altered perceived effort indoors).
DeleteOh, I redid the graph on the your posted data to reflect VT2/HRVT2
DeleteThanks for the help! Never saw that paper, will go through it. But yeah, indoors has definitely a different feeling than outside.
Delete